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Jun. 4th, 2008

Please, internet, STFU about all this stupid "It's official, Obama wins the nomination" shit. It's NOT official, and Hillary is obviously(per her speech tonight) going to continue to be a retarded bitch about it. I'm happy that he's winning too, but it's not over till the fat lady concedes, so shut it!

Comments

( 39 comments — Leave a comment )
withbutterflies
Jun. 4th, 2008 07:21 am (UTC)
OFF topic political gripe......
Laws knows I've supported Obama all the way, but even I am tired of his pie-in-the-sky ideas with no plan to speak of. I'm sure he has one, but I'd like to hear about it. One man (even with a perfectly picked Cabinet) can NOT change all of Washington so if people are really buying that, they're delusional.

I want to hear more "here is how" and less "Yes We Can!"

Still, Mrs Clinton needs to pack it in. I agree. I also don't understand all the hate for her from a lot of people who support him. Their platforms aren't THAT different so it seems to me to be more of a personality/personal thing which is a scary way to pick a candidate.

Ok, I'm done!
billdo1
Jun. 4th, 2008 05:26 pm (UTC)
Re: OFF topic political gripe......
Not to be snarky, but Obama wrote a whole book about it, which is about as highly readible as any political statement I've ever read. Take it out from the library and read it to get an idea of what he's looking to do.

He's also got a website full of details.

withbutterflies
Jun. 4th, 2008 06:11 pm (UTC)
Re: OFF topic political gripe......
I've read both of his books.

Those ideas are what he WANTS to do, which is admirable. What I'd like to hear is a REALISTIC plan of attack taking into consideration the reality of politics in Washington and our current position in the world.

justplainbryan
Jun. 4th, 2008 01:16 pm (UTC)
You know, I gotta disagree. Obama has the delegate count needed to win. How is that not the same as officially winning, regardless of what Clinton does?
tpbrcombo
Jun. 4th, 2008 01:32 pm (UTC)
Obviously I don't know if it's the same in the USA, but in Australia it is conventional (and I would say gracious) for the respective candidate's senior staff to contact each other and sort out that the candidate who has obviously lost on the numbers will concede defeat, followed by the other candidate claiming victory. It happens that way at every level of government, and because it's such an intrinsic action now, media and other interested parties don't herald a victory/defeat until this takes place.

So I agree with Vince, I don't think it's official until the fat lady sings. But then, watching this from Australia, she doesn't appear to be one for convention, or mathematics, or graciousness of any sort for that matter.
justplainbryan
Jun. 4th, 2008 01:39 pm (UTC)
It's really a triviality, though, for the loser to concede if there is absolutely zero chance the loser can win the nomination. It's kind of like saying the Lakers still didn't officially make it to the finals because the Spurs didn't "concede" defeat.
(Deleted comment)
justplainbryan
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:58 pm (UTC)
Livin' the dream!
tpbrcombo
Jun. 4th, 2008 01:50 pm (UTC)
Oh I completely agree, it makes no difference at all to the final result, but it's not *conventionally* an official win here unless there is a concession of defeat and a claiming of victory. It says to me that her ego is so horrendously large that she can't even be gracious enough to do that, which I think is (a) appalling and (b) an ongoing problem for the Democrats that seems totally unnecessary.
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:23 pm (UTC)
It's not a triviality though, since the superdelegates can vote for whomever they want. Do you think that Hillary isn't trying to wrestle those votes even now?
justplainbryan
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:31 pm (UTC)
I think she's using this indecisiveness as a bargaining chip for the VP post. It would be next to impossible that somehow Clinton manages to win the nomination, and she knows it.

I will concede that maybe it's not "official", but Clinton stands an ice cube's chance in hell to win the nomination.
billdo1
Jun. 4th, 2008 05:36 pm (UTC)
In the US, almost every concession speeach on election night I've seen begins with some variation of: "I've just called my opponent and congatulated him on his victory. . . ."
flyp
Jun. 4th, 2008 01:48 pm (UTC)
The last AP count I saw had him crossing the line of delegates needed, but I think they were including supers in that as well-and since they can easily change their minds with no repercussions, you're right, I don't know that he 'officially' has everything sewn up.

On another note, happy birthday. Since you're an immigrant, I'm going to go ahead and point out that it's customary in this country for the persona de cumpleanos to give out gifts. So send me some of those pupusas, bitch.
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:21 pm (UTC)
That's the thing. The superdelegates. I don't believe for a second that Hillary isn't trying to finagle some sort of deal with them. So, it'll be official either when she concedes or when he's actually chosen.
flyp
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:40 pm (UTC)
I think his move toward confronting McCain is a pretty wise move. Not only does it get him started on outlining policies and figuring out HOW to campaign against the GOP, it ups his stock at the convention. Since he's taking on the opponent now, it'd have to be a considerable sacrifice for the Democrats to shitcan him and put her up in the general.
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:27 pm (UTC)
Oh, and thanks for the b-day wishes. Your pupusa is in the mail. Sorry, I took a bite!
flyp
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:41 pm (UTC)
Those are made w/ cornmeal, right? What's the difference between them and empanadas?
flyp
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:44 pm (UTC)
Wait, I just looked them up on wiki. Pupusas look a lot like naan to me.

Now, what's the difference between pasteles and empanadas?
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 04:20 pm (UTC)
Well, there are Salvadoran pasteles and PR pasteles and they're quite different.

So, for the Salvadoran stuff, which was in that picture I posted last week, the pupusas are made with a thick, kind of mushy, cornmeal. I would compare the texture more to tamales and not like naan at all(besides being stuffed, like some naan). Mine were stuffed with pork(which was almost like chorizo), beans and cheese.

The pasteles were similar, only deep fried, so they had a light texture. I would compare them to Mexican empanadas, only fried instead of baked. I think mine were stuffed with chicken. Or something

Edited at 2008-06-04 04:22 pm (UTC)
flyp
Jun. 4th, 2008 05:57 pm (UTC)
Gotcha. The wiki made pupusas sound like thick tortillas, and so that put me in mind of a naan-like texture.

Ever made any at home?
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 06:20 pm (UTC)
Yeah they are kind of like thick tortillas but not fluffy and light like naan. It's kind of like if you had three flour tortillas stacked together, only the consistency of tamale masa. I've never made any at home, though I have made tamales. I may have to try and just put a crapton of cheese as the filling....mmmmm.
pricciar
Jun. 4th, 2008 02:22 pm (UTC)
Happy Birthday, George Washington Carver!

pat
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 04:23 pm (UTC)
Thanks, you know, I invented the peanut!
troymccluresf
Jun. 4th, 2008 02:33 pm (UTC)
Amen. Obama's people have cried "wolf" on Hillary so many times, I won't believe it until I see his name on the ballot in November.
lumpyone
Jun. 4th, 2008 03:57 pm (UTC)
Face it, Obama won the nomination last night. Any Democratic candidate for President needs 2118 delegates to get the nomination and he received more than that last night. No, this shouldn't include any Super Delegates because the Super Delegates votes ONLY count in the case that none of the candidates receive the required 2118+ votes. However, if the numbers being posted DID include the Super Delegates, then its rather bold of Obama and the Media to claim he has won with no one pointing out those include the Super Delegates. I can't find anything that says if those numbers do or do not include the Super Delegates.

So many people were fearing the Super Delegates would have to make a choice and there wouldn't be any general public opinion favoring one candidate over the other, thus a big concern over a unified party. Granted, there is still the concern with the primary going this long, but its not as major due to the democratic voters having had their say with a majority of them supporting Obama.

The only thing at this point that would keep Obama from getting the nomination at the Democratic Party convention is the Democratic Convention deciding out of no where they would go with Hillary but that would spark such a controversy, McCain might as well just stop campaigning because he'd win with no unity on the Democratic side.

I find Hillary not conceding at this point a real flaw of her character. Its one thing to be tenacious and fighting hard, its another to keep beating a dead horse when you've lost the race because your pride can't admit you've lost. I know people who were for Hillary that are now backing away from any support for just that reason. She is making herself look a sore loser. Oh, and speaking of losing.. why would she claim this isn't over, then admit she would consider being Obama's VP?! Come on! You might as well concede when you make a statement like that, because that tells me she already knows she has lost and is already angling for the VP spot.

What's most important though, is the perception of the American people. The general populace as of last night are agreeing that Obama has won, even though its only the media proclaiming it. Hell, Obama showed himself the better candidate when weeks ago he had started to proceed as if he had already won and began work on getting the campaign for president started. Even McCain at that point was acting like Obama was going to be his opponent with his attacks.

America has achieved a historical moment here, with a... which term is correct these days.. black man?, african-american? finally getting a chance to run as president. We, as a country, could be seeing the First Black President in our 200+ years and purpose our first woman VP? Even a woman VP would be a huge achievement. Hillary has show a woman candidate has potential to win the nomination, even if not this time around, AND if we get a woman VP, it just opens the door more for another woman to run and become President.

/rant off :)

Btw.. Happy Birthday!! :D



Edited at 2008-06-04 04:30 pm (UTC)
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 04:46 pm (UTC)
Well, all I can say is, I really hope you're right. I'm not trying to be obtuse about it, I'm just very, very distrusting of the system. I guess I feel I've been burnt bad by the Bush regime and I feel Hillary has the nerve to try something really tricky in the upcoming months.

And thank you!
lumpyone
Jun. 4th, 2008 05:00 pm (UTC)
I agree, Hillary does seem to have the nerve to try something tricky. At this point though, it seems like it would be more a harm to herself than helpful.

I don't much like the media most of the time, but this time I think they have it right with Obama.
sarahpolk
Jun. 4th, 2008 05:26 pm (UTC)
Actually what's even more irritating than the "Obama wins nomination" is the "Hillary vying for VP" articles. Those are REALLY irritating because you know, it just ain't gonna happen.
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 05:45 pm (UTC)
ROFL, your icon wins!
flyp
Jun. 4th, 2008 06:01 pm (UTC)
The 'ain't gonna happen' part might not be set in stone. I can see HEAVY pressue from the DNC for constructing that ticket, in light of the (relatively) large number of people who said no way no how would they vote Dem if the other camp got the nomination.
sarahpolk
Jun. 4th, 2008 08:24 pm (UTC)
Obama is really smart. I think he's going to not make any public announcement and wait for Hillary to start making nice and bringing her constituency to the fold. And then he'll pick someone like Jim Webb. Or Edwards.

Honestly, WTF am I supposed to do with an Obama/Hillary ticket? The thought makes me seriously want to vomit. Not from becoming ill but because I'd get so dizzy from trying to deal with my inner monsters fighting each other. I love Obama as much as I hate Hillary. I don't know what I'd do.

I think I'd just sit in the corner and rock back and forth.
cluelessputz
Jun. 4th, 2008 06:11 pm (UTC)
I think it is going to happen. I think that the DNC is going to make Obama run with Clinton like they made JFK run with LBJ. Yeah they ran a very bitter campaign against each other, and they hated each other, but for the good of the party they ran together.
sarahpolk
Jun. 4th, 2008 08:21 pm (UTC)
Noooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!


In my mind, I think Obama would be smarter to appoint her as the head of some large federal department.

In the meantime, Obama/Clinton would be a horrible ticket because:

- Hillary has a very high disapproval rating, and she will alienate libertarians, independents, and Republicans who were leaning towards Obama. Many of them will either run away screaming to McCain, or they won't vote.

- His VP will be like Cheney is to Bush. I mean seriously, who knew the VP position was basically a co-presidency?

- Those two don't really get along. You're gonna put a woman in there who has a sense of entitlement to run the White House when she's not the boss, and you are going to have some major conflicts. Obama cannot afford that kind of staff animosity if he wants to get a lot done.

- Worst: If Hillary became President, you would have an automatic co-presidency with Bill. If Hillary is VP, you will have THREE people trying to be presidential. And you know, Bill is absolutely uncontrollable. And like Alex said, you can't just say, "Shut up, Bill" -- well hillary can, but not Obama. So Bill is gonna be running around trying to run things, AND being foul-mouthed and ill-tempered. BAD idea.
cluelessputz
Jun. 4th, 2008 08:35 pm (UTC)
Im just saying that it has been done before. LBJ really wanted to be president...that turned out ok right????

Um...nevermind
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 08:40 pm (UTC)
lol, yeah!

nuh nuh nuh nuh NINETEEN!
saxface
Jun. 4th, 2008 06:16 pm (UTC)
Happy Birthday!!!
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 06:21 pm (UTC)
Thanks Mel!
thinksnow
Jun. 4th, 2008 09:31 pm (UTC)
Congrats on not dying for another year!
democritus
Jun. 4th, 2008 09:38 pm (UTC)
Danke!
( 39 comments — Leave a comment )